Give Every Wisconsin Teacher a $3725 raise!!!
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Now tһаt I һаνе уουr attention, I аm going tο propose something tһаt I һаνе seen recently аbουt uniting parents, taxpayers аחԁ teachers wһіƖе decreasing tһе importance οf tһе principal institutional impediment tο improving primary аחԁ secondary education, teachers unions. Tһе primary goal οf education іѕ tο educate tһе children. Tһаt іѕ direct classroom teacher tο student instruction.
Iח Wisconsin, tһе total amount οf dollars fοr tһаt activity іѕ οחƖу 62% οf tһе total. Tһаt means wе һаνе a 38% overhead. If wе wеrе аѕ a state tο require tһаt аƖƖ school districts spend a minimum οf 65% οf аƖƖ revenues οח tһіѕ activity, іt wουƖԁ increase revenues fοr іt bу 227 million dollars. Tһіѕ money wουƖԁ simply bе a mandatory ‘resource re-allocation‘ οf already existing money. Tһіѕ wουƖԁ simply bе a tightening οf tһе administrations belt bу a simple 3%. Tһеrе сουƖԁ easily bе 3% increase іח efficiency through consolidation οf district functions, automation, аחԁ even outsourcing.
Wһаt сουƖԁ Wisconsin ԁο wіtһ tһаt 227 million? Hοw аbουt give еνеrу teacher іח tһе state (60918 οf tһеm) a $3725 raise? Hire 5675 40K salaried teachers? Combinations οf both? Hοw аbουt incentive pay? It οf course wουƖԁ bе up tο tһе individual district tο determine. Iח Wisconsin іf a 3% hit іח tһе first year wουƖԁ bе tοο much, іt сουƖԁ bе phased іח over 2 years. Tһе beauty οf tһіѕ іѕ tһаt tһе money іѕ already tһеrе. It іѕ called tһе 65% solution. It ԁοеѕ חοt raise taxes. It targets tһе goals οf quality education, wһісһ аrе tһе kids. It forces administration tο slightly tighten іt’s belt. See tһе site called First Class Education.
If аƖƖ 50 states аחԁ tһе District οf Columbia һаԁ spent 65% іח tһе classroom during tһе 2001-2002 school year, аח additional $14 BILLION wουƖԁ һаνе bееח available fοr teachers аחԁ kids. Tһаt’s enough tο bυу еνеrу K-12 student іח America a Dell desktop computer οr hire 325,000 more teachers аt $40,000 a year. Mοѕt states wουƖԁ add hundreds οf millions οf dollars each year tο tһе classroom. AƖƖ without a tax increase οr borrowing!
Tһіѕ concept ԁοеѕ חοt preclude tһе іԁеаѕ οf increasing competition within school districts through education tax credits, bυt wουƖԁ aid іח patching tһе wedge, brought οח bу tһе teachers unions, between teachers аחԁ taxpayers аחԁ increasing tһе efficiency οf existing administrations.
Yουr comments?
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Here we go again, I am going to really anger a few (probably Chris, too) but I have a habit of speaking my mind….that has never stopped me before. I simply reject this premise that government school teachers are underpaid. They receive a 12 month salary, 12 months of cadillac health benefits, 12 months extened long term disability insurance in lieu of a waiver of premium option at below market rates, a defined benefit retirement plan, vote into office district officials who are overtly in opposition to school choice, etc., etc., etc… all for 9 months worth of work.
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Moreover, there are multitudes of applicants for every teaching opening right now at the current salary and benefit levels. If teacher openings were met with no applicants, positions going for want, you might (I emphasize might) have a case. But as it stands right now, there is no shortage of demand at the current compensation level – nor am I hearing of mass defections to the private sector by public school teachers.
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Why would anyone want to reward this particular crowed with more money?
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If a 3% efficiency gain can be accomplished, the money saved should first come back to the taxpayers to whom it belongs in the first place. Then, let’s discuss implementation of a statewide education credit – that move alone would save taxpayers in this state (including teachers, by the way) far more than $3725 and it would be a savings that would keep on giving year after year after year..
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Don’t get me wrong, I am not arguing that teachers ought not be paid well. But what “well” is must be determined by the marketplace, not a self serving group of so-called representatives of the public bending over at every opportunity to the teachers union. If we had (and we don’t) a true market for teachers unencumbered by the leviathan education monopoly of the state, and the market price was $100,000 for high school mathematics teachers – I would be the first to crow about it! So, those who critcize those who cringe at increases in public school teacher pay and benefit levels only make matters worse for thier side – there is a way to increase your pay dramatically, but it is not through the social jobs program known as public schooling.
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That’s my story and I’m stickin to it.
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ps I like this idea of a wedge issue however….. this I will ponder further.
The argument that teachers only work 9 months a year “assumes” they only work a normal” 40 work week – I do not know a of single teacher that only works an average of 40 hours per week – grading papers, conferences, etc…eat up many more hours than non-teachers can’t seem to comprehend. So – perhaps we should start paying them over-time at time and a half for time worked over 40 hours per week. We’ll, of course, have to make sure we compensate them for every penny they spend on classroom supplies (necessary ones, of course).
Sorry, but I have to give an amen to bildanielson’s comment above. He is correct regarding the teacher’s union and until this is straightened out I would be against any teacher’s pay increase unless it were tied to performance in certain disciplines such as mathematics and science.. The T union would go ballistic.
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If we put the teacher’s medical plan under the state health plan, we could save $100 million state-wide and reduce even further the percent of classroom spending compared to overhead. But Gov. Doyle has promised to veto any attempt by the legislature to do this.
Rocket, you might be on to something with this hourly wage idea..
I’m just throwing out ideas I ran across recently and asking for comments. So these ‘What if’s’ get thrown out and analyzed. I see bil caught my hint of being a wedge issue. It could also become a wedge between the teachers and their union if incentive pay were in the mix. The 65% solution says that the new infuse of capital needs to be used for instruction. These don’t necessarily have to be teacher’s pay. It could be used to purchase computers or add additional instructional opportunities like advanced science, the arts, physical education or foreign languages. Again, I’m throwing out ideas so don’t think your offending me.
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rocket, your comment on salaried workers working overtime is suspect. I am willing to bet that most people who have salaried jobs work more than 40 hours. 99 out of 100 people recognize this when they enter a profession and when they take a specific job. Are you saying that teachers are part of the 1% ? How many hours out of the 2080 hours everyone else has to work are teachers in the classroom? How many times does a teacher have to teach a class the same subject over and over before they feel no need to prep? Why don’t teachers go to seminars and state teacher conferences during the summertime?
bil said : “Rocket, you might be on to something with this hourly wage idea..”
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I say : I either think Rocket is onto something or more likely on something.”
Cub, you are ruining all the fun.. LOL!
What is a normal 40 hour work week? I can’t remember the last time I worked less than 45-50 hours a week. With a 15.8 Million dollar balance in the district “Check Book”, the district should provide the materials needed for the teachers.
I will guarantee you that there is not one teacher in the Hudson schools that buys their own supplies! That is a real stretch!
Though I am with you on this one all the way, I have to admit that the teacher I work with has spent her own money on things for our special ed. classroom many times over. I too have spent my own money on items…though I have not spent nearly as much. I have had kids show up for fieldtrips and their parents did not send lunch money…and never pay us back for buying it for them. We have purchased items we see when out, that would help with certain students in our classroom and never bother to ask for reimbursement as it seems like such a small amount that it is not worth the bother. But, it does add up. I just had to add that.
However, I doubt any teacher spends so much overtime working during the school year that it makes up for 3 months of paid time off (also Christmas break, Spring Break, etc). That excuse is a bit of a stretch.
And then we have Bernth who can’t drive to a free lunch without billing the district, as well as who knows how many other administrative staff!
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If teachers are buying supplies with their own money, then they really are goofy in the noggin.
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First off, if it is an item that hasn’t been provided, what are they doing with it in the first place? If it’s an item they are suppose to have and have used all of it – then again, what is stopping them from ordering more.
Second – after hearing all this talk during the election of how this board and administration has done such a phenomenal job with their planning, why should a teacher be short of anything?
As quick as I am not buy into the underpaid argument, I would like to add that I do believe most teachers work pretty darn hard while they are there.. I have a very talented teacher in my family, and a good friend of mine is a spec ed teacher (in fact, both husband and wife) and I know they work very hard, and deal wonderfully with the toughest of teaching tasks. I think it is important to draw that distinction here, so this much is true, and I suspect smasini and all the teachers, by and large, are “hard working” folks.
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Point being, we all work hard.. and frankly I would rather focus on the system in which public school teachers are immersed rather than personalizing my concerns at teachers, per se… I have made it a point not to do that, notwithstanding accusations from some, and I will endeavor to pursue that angle.
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Now, what I would take issue with is mindless support of the socialist paradigm and the monopoly – I believe it hurts teachers and their prospects, especially the most talented of the group.
I would love to take exception at being called “goofy in the noggin”. Am I supposed to let a child go hungry at lunch on a fieldtrip? It is not the child’s fault and I would have to be heartless not to help out. Also, the teachers have to buy supplies from their budget..they are not provided to them by the school. We do have a budget, yes, but sometimes we can’t find what we need at the stores we are alloted to shop at for these supplies…especially in special ed. I was just trying to state that the teacher I work for does care alot and does buy things with her own money that she really thinks would help our kids, if we cannot get them at Wal-Mart, which is where we are told to purchase from when it is retail.
Most teachers care a lot…the only time I take exception is when they put their own high cost wants (the current healthcare package) above what the people of the district can afford. It is the district & politics of it all that is the problem here.
Thanks Bill for noting that teachers really for the most part care. I as a Special Ed asst., sure am not in it for the cash!
ebaybabee – I guess I need to expand on my “goofy in the noggin” comment.
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What teachers don’t realize is when they purchase anything in the way of supplies or services needed for classroom instruction and pay for it our of their own pocket, then the only ones they are penalizing are themselves.
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When I was in grade school and a field trip was planned, if I didn’t bring with me to school the items I was expected to have with me, be it money or a lunch, I wouldn’t be allowed to go. We’d either be assigned to another class and given some form of class work or the parents were called and we were sent home. This is called “Learning Responsibility” for both the child and the parent, but it certainly shouldn’t be the teacher’s.
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By acting in the manner you’ve taken, there is no way of getting a handle on the true cost of teaching your class. Budgets will never be adjusted to meet the true needs and both taxpayers and teachers are shortchanged.
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I guess what I’m saying is by using this course of management you and your fellow teachers tend to be more of the problem than you do the solution.
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Out here in the private sector, I too, have the ability to purchase items needed to complete a job. Maybe my options are a bit different in how I’m given a company credit card that’s in my name and I must submit the receipts for reimbursement and get approvals after the fact. Now, my risk comes if I purchase something that upper management ends up saying “no” to. If management deemed that the purchases I made were needed, then future pricing for the service or product ends up being adjusted to more accurately reflect the true cost. This way my company and the customer know what to expect. In the manner you use, no one knows what to expect.
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In my job, I’m expected to do the best I can to satisfy the customer, but I can’t give company resources to customers just because I feel sorry for them or because they don’t have the money to pay. (That’s probably one of the biggest reasons our stock price is the way it is and why we’re not meeting analysts expectations – is because too many of us have been giving the farm away. I digress.)
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The same basic rules should apply with expenses being used by teaching staff for their customers, the students. Teachers need to realize who’s dollars they are spending and whether its truly needed. As I’ve said in another posting, public schools, just like government, is not the childrens mother.
They are not in school to be raised, they are there to be taught. I have some very strong feeling against teachers who feel they need tax dollars to go beyond the scope of teaching core curriculum to any student, regardless if they have special needs or not. Why should property owners be saddled with the extra expense of educational funding for these children? Also, knowing the amount of dollars that is allotted for special ed. children, why would a teacher ever need to pull one nickel our of their own pocket?
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I fully understand the needs of handicap children and the impact it places on those families. My beef with the present system is we have a group within this school district that sells us to the world saying, “Come to Hudson, we’ll do more for your Special Needs children because we are successful at raping the taxpayers.” What do you suppose would happen if 50% of this school district’s kids were labeled as special needs children? There is no way you could live here. The school tax alone would be staggering.
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Which leads us right back to what this post was all about – overhead. As more and more students are labeled “special needs” and given the amount of staff claimed to be needed to make the observations, do the reports and hold the meetings, its no wonder there is little educating going on. The special needs program (I’m not saying the special ed. program) must be either reduced or limited in the amount of time a student is allowed in the program. If the program is not proving to be aiding the child in getting out, then it needs to be eliminated and other more productive methods found. In doing so, the non-teaching staff would be reduced thereby lowering the costs.
Another hijacking by the right crew. They are distorting the facts again, of course I am sure this will be thrown as philosophical debate compared with a technical one as bd likes to say. He begins to mislead the community right away by saying teachers get paid a 12 month salary. I don’t know of any teacher in the United States that gets paid for 12 months as a teacher. Teachers get paid for the school year, nothing beyond that so get off the lies BD! Then you come back with this diatribe that your a supporter and you have friends that are teachers, I am sure they appreciate your support of public education especially the special ed side, more than once you have been quite critical of special education.
Then kilowat says that ALL teachers are “goofy in the noggin’” I say all because I don’t know of a teacher in the United States that doesn’t spend their own money on their classroom supplies. I haven’t heard one Hudson teacher complain about the money they spend on supplies which is why Taxboy makes an ASSinine statement such as “I will guarantee you that there is not one teacher in the Hudson schools that buys their own supplies!” This tells you how out of touch these people really are with the school district. They disagree with anything the district does, nothing is right, the new Superintendent will find this out very soon as I am sure the attacks will come immediately. Good luck with your continued bashing of teachers, you can claim all you want that this is about the system not the teachers but everything in this post is about the teachers, even Ebaybaby’s failed attempt to stick up for the teachers. She of all people should have alerted this blog to the lies that were being spread about 12 month salaries – In Saint Paul our Principals aren’t even paid 12 month salaries, not sure about Hudson on this point.
Competition, oh if we had competition.
smasini, what I stick up for is the kids. I believe in top education but not at the cost of the families. Like my husband told me the other day…instead of having a class at high school for bicycling, he’d rather save those tax dollars being wasteed on such a ridiculous class and spend the time he’d otherwise be working to pay for it, to actually bike with our kids. I believe in funding education as long as that money is well spent. Much of OUR money being paid for education is NOT being well spent in this community. I love the teachers in this district and most do a fantastic job teaching my children as well as working with me and my special needs students. However, I will not put education before things that I feel are more or as important such as a close family that has time to spend with each other. Something people don’t understand is that many children are being abondonded by parents and others who are always working , etc. and don’t have quality time to spend with there kids. Don’t tell me that is not a huge issue because I get to deal with the effects of it everyday. Kids need time with the parents and an education….you cannot sacrifice one for the other. We could have most of what you and the rest of us want if the school district would manage money better, use the reserves and stick to educating the kids instead of wasting money on bogus classes like cycling, fishing, etc.
Oh, forgot to add regarding salary…all I know is that if I was getting paid what my teacher gets paid and had all the time off she has, I would be dang happy.
So what you’re really saying is Physical Education is a waste of time and is absolutely ridiculous to have in our school system. Is it the school districts fault that parents are abandoning their children? You have me puzzled on that one. I don’t doubt that you stick up for kids, what I questioned was that you went right along with this debate that teachers are paid for 12 months when they only work 10, that is false and you know that yet you went on without calling out the lies of the right wing fundamentalists. I would be willing to bet, we have a “few” more students being abandoned in St. Paul than right here in Hudson. The one thing you cannot say about this school district is that they are not educating kids. The education of kids is not the what this crew is fighting because they can’t, our kids are getting a first class education.
Regarding salary, I don’t hear anyone complaining about salary and benefits, I beleive you do have the same time off as your teacher, don’t you, you chose to be an Educational Assistant, you have an opportunity to be a teacher, so if they are paid so well and have so much time off why not go for it?
For someone who works around 8 months out of the year and is paid a 12 month salary, you sound very angry samasini. And by the way, if a teacher in Hudson buys supplies out of their own pocket without getting reimbursed then it’s their own fault. There’s plenty of “slush” money for supplies!
See Taxboy, this is how out of touch you are with schools, did you go to school? You try to mislead people, which is why so many do not trust you. Now we are down to 8 months, sounds like you’re a little jealous! Again, I don’t hear any teacher complaining about not being reimbursed for supplies. If teachers were being reimbursed from the “slush” money you would have a heart attack and you know it. You are anti public ed. anti teacher yet you continue to pay their salairies : )!
By the way taxboy, I am on a 11 month contract in St. Paul! and yes I work all summer!
Are you saying $60,000/yr salary (that’s before benefits) for working only 8 months is not enough smasini? What color is the world you live in? (Obviously GREEN!)
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And NO!! Cycling and fishing is not considered physical education – I’d call it a social sport. (Unless your in the public school system where they deem it neccesary to provide all children with a bike, boat and fishing tackle.) Smasini, your definition of phy ed follows right in line with your definition of math – teach kids how to punch numbers on a calculator.
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I’m starting to get a much clearer picture now on why you think teachers aren’t paid for a full year – you haven’t found the avg button on your calculator yet. (Those darn math classes can be really tricky ya know.) This might also explain the problems with spending and school supplies as well. Hmmmm…..
Concerning the $60,000/year teacher salary for primary and secondary teachers in public schools…This isn’t the starting pay is it? What would be the average starting pay? Does $60,000/year salary for a state-certified, public school teacher seem out of line in the St. Croix River valley where there are high school dropouts making that much for unskilled factory work?
If you take a look in the 2005 World Almanac, you will see that private college and university teachers get paid more the public university teachers. Maybe the problem is that private school teachers are not getting the pay and benefits they deserve for the work they are doing…
Can somebody tell me if private school teachers have to have the same certification and education requirements as primary and secondary public school teachers?
Can somebody tell me if private schools are required by law to accept every child who comes through their door — regardless of ability or disability? If you tell me the private schools can be selective on who they take, then I will tell you they should get paid less than the public school teachers because they don’t have as challenging a job environment.
Does any know how much those guys that drive the Hudson city trucks around get paid? Do you know how much work they do for a living? What are their benefits packages?
Check the 2005 Almanac to see which jobs are predicting the greatest demand and growth in the next decade. Nursing sits on top of the least and teaching job categories make up four or five of the categories. Obviously, living expenses are higher in Hudson than in many other parts of the state and therefore you’d be expecting teachers to get paid more. I’d be willing to bet teachers in Hudson get paid more than teachers in Thorpe, all things being equal.
Maybe Kilowatt, Tax Boy and Ebaybabee could provide us with an estimate of the total time in their lives that they have spent teaching in a public or private school system…Or maybe they could tell us how much time they have spent observing — as a non-student– an actual class being taught. This would help me better understand if their position on the topic of teacher salaries comes from experience, jealousy and/or ignorance.
Now we see where mustard man is coming from. He’s giving us a glimpse of who he really is. He’s connected to the school system right here in Hudson. He’s not some out of towner who somehow keeps up on the happenings in Hudson. Does one have to have been a teacher in order to have an opinion about the system? There is no legitimate competition in order to determine the proper wage level. You can cry all you want about cost of living, etc., etc. How about a little competition? Just like smasini, you can’t see the forest through the trees. Public education is at a crossroads and the taxpayers throughout this state and many others are saying enough is enough.
Really? funny dratsum how taxboy can’t answer your questions? He throws competition back – last I saw the public schools are competing with private schools, charter schools and even home schoolers. We are winning with catholic schools as they are losing students – charter schools can’t even compare with public schools as they continue to get shut down and continue to underperform. dratsum, no offense but poor question about Taxboy spending time in schools, he has shown throughout this discussion that he is disconnected from what is going on – he only cries about his taxes, I guess I would too if I had no idea where they were going.
Crossroads? I thought a crossroad was a crisis situation where a critical decision must be made, not sure any decision is going to be made here anytime soon, are you talking referendum or are you talking about the election. What critical decision is public education facing right now that they haven’t faced in the last 10 years? I still see pubic education going strong – even the right wing governor in Minnesota invested more into education but of course you did say only the taxpayers in this state are concerned. Good luck with your crossoads TAXBOY!
Interesting comments smasini. I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, as long as someone has to pay your way AND pay for a private school, then there is NO COMPETITION. As long as you can amortize your exhorbitant costs over a growing number of people who have no children in public schools, then you can continue to blow your horn. I’m just curious how many people in St. Paul would pay the actual cost as a fee to go to your school? Not many I suppose. And as far as Pawlenty being right wing? Common now. He’s been sucking off of the public trough for some time now. And his wife does the same. He can’t get enough government, just like you.
It really bothers you that the taxpayers of Minnesota pay my salary doesn’t it? Let’s compare what I do to what you do for a living taxboy, bet you don’t want to offer that up do you?
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again COMPETITION is out there? Oh you want a level playing field right? Then answer dratsum questions about a level playing field.
How can you make a statement when you have no clue as to where I teach? You don’t know if I teach in the best school in St. Paul or the worst, we have 50 elementary schools and I know Capitol Hill Elementary School can beat the pants off of any school when you compare test scores so how do you know I don’t teach at that school. It is a school of gifted and talented students so we have an opportunity to be selective like the private schools and look at how well we do?!?
I am just curious as to how many people would support what you do as a professional if you had the GUTS to announce on here what you do for a living.
I guess you don’t consider YOUR president right wing either since he has been sucking off the public trough for just as long.
Listen smasini, if you want to attribute specific comments to me go find the quote and put it in a comment. But don’t start this bs of putting words in my mouth. You have mischaracterized and attibuted to me things I have either not said nor implied. You can disagree with me, that’s fine but you’re pushin it with some of your attributions. So either argue with some balls or get off the blog.
“They receive 12 months salary … all for 9 months worth of work” I believe this is the thing that you said in the first comment in the post so please don’t threaten me with your continued things How have I backed down, oh because I haven’t bowed and kissed your feet to your philosophical idea. Nice maturity BD, is this the value system that you preach? Don’t tell me how to behave on this blog, last I checked it wasn’t yours, you may tell admin how to run it but it ain’t yours so get off the power trip pal! Was the first quote specific enough for you?
First of all, I have never said Phy Ed. is a waste of time..bicycling classes and all this other garbage is. Teach kids the fundamentals and get on with it. That is my position. I have never said it was school district’s fault that kids are being let down by parents but I do take the position that it sure is not helping, by jacking up taxes every time we turn around, when we have plenty to spend now. They need to look at better fiscal responsibility instead, before gouging the public. In our family, sometimes we have to weigh our wants against our needs and sometimes give up our wants due to lack of “revenue” and the school district needs to do the same.
I would love to have a job as a teacher..it is what I went to school for until I had to quit when my father became gravely ill and I had to help support my family. Hence, I now do not have the full education to do it. However, I have the next best thing and I am quite happy about it. I was responding to YOUR comments regarding salary…what you get is not much to compalin about, at least if it like the teacher I work for. As for dratsums comments, I have spent quite a bit of time teaching children as well as observing classes on a daily basis for a few years so I think I know what I am talking about. There is no “jealousy” here at all, I just want fiscal responsibility in my school district as well as reasonable classes offered instead of wasting my money. The money well is getting dry!
This is pretty funny.. Nice try smasini, but it did’nt work.
[...] Give Every Wisconsin Teacher a $3725 raise!!! A post I wrote nearly 30 months ago. Ah.. the nostalgia! [...]